Handling Discipline As God Desires

Many Christians take the passage from Hebrews 12 about discipline & make harsh unpleasantness out to be the main or only way God teaches His children. It is true that it does say "the different types of discipline seem sorrowful in the moment instead of joyous." But Lamentations 3:33 says, "God does not make people suffer nor cause them sorrow willingly from His heart." So if discipline seems sorrowful to us it is because of how we handle it not because of how God intends it to feel.

Discipline is elsewhere translated as "nurture" & it has the meaning of "the whole training and education of a child." It does not mean punishment or harsh treatment. 1 Corinthians 13:6 says "love rejoices with the truth." If God corrects you by telling you the truth & you don't rejoice it just might mean that you don't love yourself. But it more likely & may also mean that you don't understand enough about how much God loves you.

If you take discipline, in regards to the portion where God is trying to correct your false beliefs with the truth or God is trying to walk you out of destructive behaviors, as God not thinking you're good enough so He is constantly trying to fix your worthless tail you will take that discipline with sorrow. But "God does not willingly cause people sorrow." Sometimes He knows it is an inevitable part of the process but His heart does not want it to be that way. He values you beyond your imagination. You are perfect in His sight but He wants to help you control & improve your flesh so that you can enjoy life & share His love.

So Hebrews 12:6 talks about how we might experientially receive God's discipline not how God desires for us to receive it. And I'm not at all talking about a "suck it up because you're supposed to take it like a man" type of thing.

The Lord said to me, "My love is all you need. My power brings an end to weakness." I will gladly rejoice about my weaknesses so that the power of Christ may move in & take control of my weaknesses. (2 Corinthians 12:9)
Instead of feeling sorrow because of the weaknesses of our flesh God wants us to rejoice knowing He will help us with all that we need. He does not intend for His discipline to cause us sorrow but He tells us in Hebrews that even if it does we should not let how we feel determine how we view our relationship with Him because we in fact are His "sons & daughters in whom He delights in, in whom  He is pleased with."  Hebrews 12 was to encourage us that we are His children who He loves & nurtures so we wouldn't take His discipline as something that is sorrowful or irritating. It wasn't, as so many have taken it, meant to say, "God's gonna whoop you so get used to it! God beats all His kids. When He takes that belt to your backside that lets you know that you belong to Him." That is garbage! Here are tons of scriptures that show you why that view is the opposite of how God treats us. You will see that growing our understanding of His unconditional love for us (His grace) is the primary way God helps us & changes our behavior.

• God's love for us trains us to reject godless ways & worldly desires and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives. His love for us makes us eager to do what is good. He gave Himself for us to restore us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people who belong to Him as His very own dearly loved children. (Titus 2:11-12,14)
• God's kindness leads you to change your mind for the better. (Romans 2:4)
• Let us confidently draw near to the throne of God's gracious love for us so that we may receive kindness and find His love for us which helps us in our time of need. (Hebrews 4:16)
• God is able to make all of His love superabound to you. His love gives you everything you need & is more than enough for you to do every kind of good work. He simply makes you rich in everything and produces countless reasons for thanksgiving. (from 2 Corinthians 9:8-15)
• See to it that no one comes short in their understanding of how much God loves them. No root of bitterness will spring up & cause trouble if we understand His love for us. No immoral or godless person can stand the pure love of God without being sucked into it & freed or angrily walking away from it. (Hebrews 12:15-16)
• Allow the Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father to comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word because He has loved us and given us eternal comfort & good hope by His gracious love for us. (2 Thessalonians 2:16)
• It is good for your heart to be strengthened by God's love for you. The love of Jesus Christ for you is the same yesterday and today and forever. He Himself has said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,” so that we could confidently say, “The Lord is my helper, I will not be afraid. What will man do to me?” The more you recognize God's love for you the less you will be carried away by various teachings. (Hebrews 13:5-6,8-9)
• Keep on growing in your knowing that God loves you. Learn of Him from Him & you will not be carried away by the error of those who seek the flesh, instead your mind will stand firm in the knowledge & love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 3:18)
• Jesus said, "I will treat you with gentleness & humility. I will walk with you, work with you, & teach you. I want to give you rest, wisdom, enjoyment, & ease." (Matthew 11:28-30)

As we grow in the understanding of how much God values us & loves us as His children we will be able to see the difference between our feelings of shame & His voice. Our shame-filled & insecure self-centered pride will be displaced by God's proudness of us. God has a proud opinion of us. We don't need our pride, we need His pride. He loves us more than we could ever love ourselves & He has all wisdom to love us perfectly without harming us.

Listen to what I am about to say because it is reliable. "When the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of good deeds we have done, but according to His compassion. We have been made whole by the Holy Spirit's washing which restored us to who we were uniquely meant to be and changed us into children of God. He richly poured out His Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior and we have been made righteous by His love for us. We are now heirs with Christ to everything God has as we are holding onto the expectancy of continuing our eternal life with Him." When people who come to trust in God understand this they will seek to do good with eagerness & wisdom. (Titus 3:4-8)

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Forcing Hate

You've heard "love the sinner, hate the sin." But striving to hate sin is a dead end that puts your mind on sin instead of on Jesus and loving others. Love the sinner, hate the sin says to people, "I love you but I'm gonna focus my hatred on your faults." Y'know because the smart way to love someone is to focus on their faults right?

1 Corinthians 13:5 says, "Love does not take into account a wrong." So it is impossible to love the sinner & hate the sin. If you hate their sin you've stopped loving them because you're keeping account of their wrongs to hate on. God's attitude toward sin is love's attitude. 2 Corinthians 5:19 says God doesn't hold any one's sins against them. God didn't ignore sin, He condemned sin in His flesh on the cross.

God will never make me feel shame or guilt for my actions. God will reveal truth to me & He still loves me so He will help me stop my harmful behaviors. There is no hate involved, just love.

I'm not saying it is wrong to have a distaste for evil. My beef is that "hate the sin" is phrased as a command. The idea behind the quote is that when someone does something "sinful" I am obligated to hate their sin, as if I am not allowed to love a sinner without hating their sin. All I remember Jesus doing was loving the sinner & confronting those who burden others.

God has never painfully shown me the truth unless that truth caused me to feel pain for another person because He revealed a piece of their heart to me. I honestly can't think of a time God even called me out for doing wrong. What happens in my life is God turns my mind naturally & immediately back to Him in most cases where I do something wrong. Not even in a, "Oh boy I'm thankful you forgave me" but more like I just forget about what happened (unless I need to reconcile with someone) & go on walking in the joy & peace of the spirit within moments of doing the wrong. That is the freedom of His love. I used to be burdened for days over screwing up now I am free & joyful in who God is even a moment after screwing up without even trying. He causes my focus to default on Him.

The context of John 16:8 says Jesus convicts those who don't trust in Him of sin. It says He convicts the people who trust Him of righteousness (a play on words that means he declares them "guilty" of not being guilty). "Convict" is a direct synonym of the word "condemn." Convict means "to declare guilty." Condemnation is a "pronouncement of guilt." Romans 8:1 says there is NO condemnation in Christ. God will not charge His child with guilt. (Accuse & convict are synonyms too). In the secular world "convict" is used to describe someone being found guilty in court & sentenced to imprisonment. So I wouldn't use that word because I feel it gives the wrong message to Christians & non-Christians alike.

God does refute us (sometimes translated as rebuke) which means He leads us out of false beliefs we have (such as "this isn't hurting anyone"). Hebrews 12 says that sort of thing can make us "sorrowful or irritated" but "afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness." Personally I haven't felt sorrowful or irritated over God refuting me because the truth is so much better than the falsehood I believed.

People shouldn't have to strive to hate sin. If you do you do, if you don't you don't. To force yourself to hate some one's actions actually makes you less loving toward that person. The way I've heard the "love the sinner, hate the sin" quote used most often is to basically say, "You can be friends with a 'sinner' but you have to let them know that you don't condone what they do & that you hate their sin." It almost comes across as "You're not allowed to love a sinner unless you also hate their sin, if you don't hate their sin you're a bad Christian & susceptible to becoming like them."

The quote isn't even from scripture. 2 Corinthians 5:16 says, "Do not regard anyone according to the flesh." While I can hate evil & try to protect those I love from it that doesn't mean I should deliberately hate some one's actions as the quote suggests. That is a terrible idea that makes it harder to love people. Ask yourself, How can I forgive someone while hating their sin?

This Side of the Cross: Church Discipline?

“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembly; and if he refuses to listen even to the assembly, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)

Jesus said this before the cross. Gentiles are a part of His body now. As I've said elsewhere the word church should be translated "assembly." The Jews had an assembly going back into the old testament. Today the Assembly includes Gentiles thus what Jesus spoke of here was something only for the Jews at the time. How do you treat someone like a gentile when you are one? Gentiles are our brothers in Christ. Jesus also loved & spent time with tax collectors, they were His friends. I don't see abandonment of relationship in view here at all.

Jesus' goal was to have Jews follow & trust in Him so they could be saved by His sacrifice. Sin had real spiritual power before the cross. Jesus wanted the disciples to watch out for each other so sin would not cause them to fall away & prevent them from being saved by His sacrifice on the cross.

Before talking about this Jesus warns that sin could cause them to go to hell, "If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire." That was only true for someone who did not remain with Christ until the resurrection. Jesus wasn't talking about His post-cross followers losing their salvation. Jesus was talking about Jews not arriving at salvation when it comes at the resurrection because sin distracted them.

God Does Not Punish His Children

Jesus didn't go around punishing people for sin even if the law said to do so. The predominant view of God today is that Jesus would have cast the first stone & all of the stones. But the truth is He loves people and doesn't hold sins against us.

Religion wants you to believe that God is a good God when it pictures Him abusing His children with guilt, shame, & sickness. That somehow "holy" means quick to anger, easily offended, and vindictive. If God's love & goodness is unrecognizable as love or goodness to mankind then the gospel isn't good news, it is non-sense. God is love, the bible defines love in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8. God is patient, kind, unarrogant, He does not seek His own, He is not easily provoked, He does not take into account wrongs suffered, & He does not rejoice in unrighteousness (not even in punishing it), but rejoices with the truth.
Perfect love cast out fear because fear has to do with punishment (1 John 4:18). God is perfect love, if we think He punishes us then we aren't understanding His perfect love. If you think God punishes you then I implore you to explore His perfect love more.

Suffering does not equal punishment from God and neither does discipline or persecution. Punishment is "a penalty imposed for wrongdoing." Christian persecution usually comes from the consequences of right doing. Persecution and suffering can come from doing good things for God's sake & that doesn't mean God is abusing His children. It is just the world responding with hostility to God.

Paul says in Colossians 1:24, "I am happy about my sufferings for you, for by means of my physical sufferings I am helping to complete what still remains of Christ's sufferings on behalf of his body, the assembly." This is about living sacrificially for others out of love. God is loving His people through Paul and that love involves suffering for the sake of others, not getting beaten up by God for God's sick pleasure. Paul chose to put himself in danger for the love of Christ and for the love of others. Jesus did the same thing for the love of the Father and for the love of us.

It pleased the Lord to bruise Jesus (Isaiah 53:10) not because God gets sick pleasure from beating up His kids but because it served a purpose of greater love. God was pleased to bruise Jesus like a surgeon is pleased to cut someone open and remove a tumor. Christ took the beating that sin would give us to condemn sin so it would not be a barrier for mankind and God any more. God doesn't love abuse but He does love to free people from abuse. Christ offers freedom from the abuse of sin.

Some think God chastening is God punishing. The Greek word behind "chastening" does not mean punishing. It is the word usually translated as discipline and means help grow, teach, train, nurture, "the whole training and education of a child." God does not punish His children, He corrects them with truth for their benefit. [More on God's Discipline]

GOD CHOSE TO LOVE YOU AS A PERSON OVER PUNISHING YOU FOR YOUR ACTIONS. Thinking you've been good enough to deserve the goodness of God totally misses the point of the cross. On the other side of the coin, anyone thinking that bad things are happening in their lives because God is punishing them for something bad they've done is also missing the point of the cross. The point was not Him hating sin. The point was Him loving you. It's not, "For God so hated sin.." but "For God so loved the world.."

Most Christians think God's punishment is to make you feel really bad (shameful, guilty) about what you've done. God created mankind to be loved not to be punished. Jesus came to take away our sins. Shame, guilt, & condemnation should not be a part of a Christian's life in any way. When you are not judging yourselves in light of the finished work of the cross (free from sin, accepted, loved), you will still experience the punishing effects of sin (rejection, shame, condemnation). Even If you are deceived, ignorant, or ignoring you will live what you believe. If you believe God punishes you then you will label your own feelings of shame, guilt, depression, failure, dissatisfaction, etc as "God's discipline" or "God's punishment." Whether it is true or not you will live what you believe. Believe in His love! Trust in His love! He is love! He is The Truth! HIS LOVE IS TRUE FOR YOU!


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The Discipline of the Lord, Our Loving Father Helping Us Grow

"My son, do not lightly regard the discipline of the Lord, nor be irritated or grieved when refuted by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves like a father disciplines a son he is pleased with.” (Proverbs 3:11-12/Hebrews 12:5-6)

Refute (sometimes translated as rebuke) here means to correct, to lead you out of false beliefs. It hurts our ego to be corrected or to find out that we are wrong but God wants us to live in the truth. Discipline here means "the whole training and education of a child." The loving Father raises us as His own beloved children. He nurtures us. He helps us grow.

It is for discipline (God spurring you to growth) that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline (help grow, teach, train, nurture)? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline does not seem to be joyful but sorrowful or irritating, but afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it (Hebrews 12:7-11).

We are already holy because of our birth in Christ (1 Corinthians 3:17). Jesus Himself is our holiness (1 Corinthians 1:30). To "share His holiness" means to share in the experience of His holiness. To reap the benefit of good, pure living as God intends. God may be very harsh with us at times to help us grow but it is never out of anger. God swore to never be angry with us again because of the blood of Jesus Christ (Isaiah 54:9). He disciplines us for our good. He has our best interests in mind.

We are already righteous (Romans 3:22). We are a good tree (Matthew 7:18). God wants righteous and peaceful fruit (love) to come out of us. God walks along side of us in love showing us affection, helping us grow, teaching us, & training us. Him doing this results in us trusting Him more and securely resting in Him (abiding). When we abide in Him we yield much fruit (John 15:5). That fruit is love (Galatians 5:22-23). Our abiding is the result of Him showing His loving kindness (grace) towards us and proving Himself to be trustworthy. His training results in our trusting which He uses to produce our loving. He loves us and His love (raising us as His child) causes us to love.

Jesus said in Revelation 3:19, "I refute and discipline those I love therefore be earnest and change your mind."
Here refute still means to correct, to lead you out of false beliefs. Discipline is a slightly different word that means "to teach and cause to learn." So Jesus was saying, "I lead those I love out of false beliefs and cause them to learn the truth. Let my love motivate you to eager sincerity to change your mind." In other words, Knowing that Jesus' love causes us to learn the beneficial truth. There is no reason for us not to be eager to allow Him to renew our mind.

See Also This Excellent Teaching on The Discipline of the Lord